READ ONLY — These threads are preserved, not honored.
Welcome, GuestPumper | Log In
📐 BANNED THREAD — "Mathematical proof that pump cannot exist" — Posted on Pi Day (intentional) — The math was wrong — Also the attitude — 312 replies — 44,881 views — Peer reviewed by his roommate —
🚫 THIS THREAD IS LOCKED AND ARCHIVED. You cannot reply. It is preserved as a record.
LOCKED BANNED "Mathematical proof that pump cannot exist..." — 312 replies — Page 1 of 11
📐 MathAgainstPump BANNED Account Suspended Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 14 (all mathematical) The proof zone
Post #1 — Posted March 14, 2018, 3:14 PM (Pi Day) Quote | Report

Happy Pi Day, everyone. In honor of the day, I present a rigorous mathematical proof that the pump, as described by this forum, cannot exist as a discrete phenomenon. This proof has been peer reviewed by my roommate, who has a minor in applied mathematics and works at Best Buy.

ABSTRACT: We demonstrate via proof by contradiction that the pump, defined as "the state of elevated physical, spiritual, and existential engagement achieved through sustained muscular exertion" (pumping.zone Official Definition, 2017), fails basic mathematical coherence when subjected to formal analysis.

THEOREM 1: The Pump Discontinuity Problem Let P(t) = the pump state at time t Let E(t) = muscular exertion at time t Let S(t) = spiritual engagement at time t (lol) If P(t) = E(t) + S(t) + X(t), where X(t) is the "existential engagement" term (undefined in any mathematical framework known to me or my roommate) Then: lim(t->∞) P(t) = ??? The limit does not converge. You cannot take the limit of a function that includes an undefined spiritual variable. The pump is therefore mathematically DISCONTINUOUS and cannot be said to "exist" in any formal sense. QED (of this section)

THEOREM 2: The Pump Topology Problem

Consider the set of all pumps P = {p1, p2, ... pn} If each pump pi is unique (as many forum members claim, e.g. "no two pumps are the same"), then P is an uncountably infinite set of distinct states. But: the human body has finite states. The gym has finite equipment. A set has 3 reps or 5 reps or 10 reps. It does not have ∞ reps. Therefore: P must be finite. But: if P is finite, then pumps repeat. If pumps repeat, they are not unique. If they are not unique, the forum's claim that "every pump is special" is FALSE. By the Pumping Lemma (yes I am using the actual Pumping Lemma, no I will not apologize for the pun), if L is a regular language and w is a string in L with |w| >= p, then the pump can be decomposed into xyz where |xy| <= p and |y| >= 1 and... OK I realize the Pumping Lemma is about formal languages and not actual pumping but the NAME is right there and I had to try.

The full proof is 17 pages. I will post the remaining 15 pages in subsequent replies. My roommate Kyle has reviewed all of it. He says the notation is "mostly correct" and the conclusions are "bold."

I await your rebuttals. Please use formal mathematical notation. I will not accept arguments based on "feeling" or "vibes" or "you just have to pump to understand."

— MathAgainstPump | the proof speaks for itself | peer reviewed by Kyle (Best Buy, applied math minor)
💉 DrPumpPhD Senior Member PhD in Exercise Physiology ★★★★★ Joined: 2008 Posts: 7,441 Research lab / gym
Post #2 — Posted March 14, 2018, 4:02 PM Quote | Report

I have a PhD and I need to address several things here.

Theorem 1: You cannot define S(t) as "spiritual engagement (lol)" and then complain that the limit doesn't converge. You added "lol" to your own variable definition and then argued the variable is undefined. That is not a proof. That is you making fun of your own equation.

Theorem 2: Your argument that the set of all pumps must be finite because the body has finite states is actually interesting, but you then immediately undercut it by trying to apply the Pumping Lemma from formal language theory, which has nothing to do with physical pumping. You even acknowledged this in the proof itself, which means you submitted a proof containing a section you yourself identified as irrelevant.

Also: your "peer reviewer" works at Best Buy and has a minor in applied math. Peer review typically involves people with expertise in the relevant field, not someone who can calculate employee discounts quickly.

The math is wrong. But I appreciate the effort. Please pump.

— DrPumpPhD | the Pumping Lemma is about regular languages | it is not about what you think it is about
💪 PumpMaster3000 LEGENDARY PUMPER 🏆 Hall of Fame Member ★★★★★★★ Joined: Apr 1999 Posts: 50,003 Everywhere.
Post #3 — Posted March 14, 2018, 5:30 PM Quote | Report

MathAgainstPump. I read your proof. Both theorems. I also looked up the Pumping Lemma because I didn't know what it was.

I now understand that the Pumping Lemma is a tool used in theoretical computer science to determine whether a language can be recognized by a finite automaton. It has absolutely nothing to do with physical pumping, weightlifting, or gym culture. You used it because it has the word "pump" in the name.

This is like someone writing a paper on marine biology and citing "The Old Man and the Sea" as a primary source because it has the word "sea" in the title.

Your proof has the energy of someone who is very smart in one area and decided that made them smart in all areas. I have met this type of person before. Several of them are in the Banned Thread Archive.

Please post the remaining 15 pages. I genuinely want to read them. And then please pump.

— PumpMaster3000 | I googled the Pumping Lemma | it's about finite automata | since 1999
📐 MathAgainstPump BANNED Account Suspended Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 14 (all mathematical) The proof zone
Post #4 — Posted March 14, 2018, 7:44 PM Quote | Report

OK. Fine. The Pumping Lemma section was a stretch. I acknowledge this. Kyle also flagged it but I left it in because the name was too perfect to waste.

However. My core argument stands. You cannot define a phenomenon using undefined variables (spiritual engagement, existential engagement) and then claim the phenomenon is real. That is not how math works. That is not how anything works.

Here is Theorem 3, from page 7 of the proof:

THEOREM 3: The Pump Conservation Paradox By the First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Forum users claim that during the pump, they "become more than they were." If a pumper becomes "more," then mass-energy has been created. This violates conservation laws. Therefore either: (a) The pump does not make you "more" (b) The laws of physics do not apply at the gym (c) Both Kyle and I agree it's (a). Some of you might believe (b). Nobody should believe (c).

I have 14 more theorems. I will post them all. You cannot ban math.

— MathAgainstPump | Theorem 3 of 17 | Kyle agrees | you cannot ban math
🏋️ KeepItSimple_Dave Regular Member Just Here to Pump ★★★ Joined: 2002 Posts: 3,441 The gym
Post #5 — Posted March 15, 2018, 9:10 AM Quote | Report

I don't know math. I never claimed to know math. I'm Dave and I just pump.

But even I can see that Theorem 3 is wrong. "Become more than they were" is a metaphor. It's not literal. When someone says "I feel like a million bucks" they do not literally believe they have transformed into United States currency. When this forum says the pump makes you "more," it means you feel bigger, stronger, and more alive. Not that you have violated the laws of thermodynamics.

You wrote 17 pages of math to disprove a metaphor. You used equations to argue with a feeling. Your roommate peer reviewed it from Best Buy.

I say this with respect: go pump. The math will be there when you get back. The pump will not wait.

— Dave | I don't know math | I know the pump | that's enough
📐 MathAgainstPump BANNED Account Suspended Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 14 (all mathematical) The proof zone
Post #11 — Posted March 18, 2018, 11:55 PM Quote | Report

I have posted 10 of my 17 theorems. The response has been overwhelmingly negative. 300 people have replied. Approximately 290 of them told me to go pump. 8 of them found genuine errors in my math. 2 of them found errors and ALSO told me to go pump.

I want to note for the record that several of my theorems were never actually rebutted. Theorem 9 (The Pump Incompleteness Theorem, which argues that no formal system can prove the pump exists from within the pump) received no mathematical responses at all. It received 14 responses that were just the word "pump" repeated.

Kyle has read all the responses. He says I should "maybe just let it go." Kyle has been less supportive as a peer reviewer than I expected. He also told me yesterday that he's "started thinking about trying the gym" which I consider a betrayal of the highest order.

I stand by my proof. The math is mostly correct. The conclusions are valid. The pump cannot exist as a formally defined discrete phenomenon.

[Editor's note: MathAgainstPump posted 3 more theorems after this before being banned. Theorem 12 was titled "Proof That Kyle Is Wrong For Starting To Pump" and was not mathematical at all. It was just a paragraph about feeling betrayed. Kyle joined the forum two weeks after the ban under the username KyleFromBestBuy and has posted 441 times about his pump journey. He has never mentioned the proof.]

— MathAgainstPump | Theorem 10 of 17 | Kyle is a traitor | the proof stands
💪 PumpMaster3000 Moderator 🏆 Hall of Fame Member ★★★★★★★ Joined: Apr 1999 Posts: 50,003 Everywhere.
Post #313 — Posted March 22, 2018, 2:00 PM MOD POST Quote | Report

⚙️ MODERATOR RESPONSE — THREAD LOCKED:

MathAgainstPump is banned. The thread is locked.

The ban reason, which I wrote myself and which PumpAdmin_Original approved: "The math was wrong. Also the attitude."

For the record: we reviewed all 14 theorems that were posted (3 of the planned 17 were never submitted). DrPumpPhD identified fundamental errors in 11 of them. The Pumping Lemma section was, by the poster's own admission, irrelevant. Theorem 12 was about his roommate. The "peer review" was conducted by someone at Best Buy.

We also want to welcome KyleFromBestBuy, who has just registered. Kyle, you are welcome here. Your pump journey is your own. Your roommate will understand eventually, or he won't. Either way: pump.

🔒 THREAD LOCKED. 312 replies. 14 theorems posted, 0 successful. The pump has not been mathematically disproven. Pi Day will never be the same.

— PumpMaster3000 | the math was wrong | also the attitude | since 1999
🚫 MODERATION ACTION
Thread locked by: PumpMaster3000 (approved by PumpAdmin_Original)
Date: March 22, 2018
User status: Permanently banned
Ban reason: "The math was wrong. Also the attitude."
Peer reviewer status: KyleFromBestBuy is now an active forum member with 441 posts.
Notes: 14 of 17 planned theorems were posted. 11 contained fundamental errors. 1 was about formal languages. 1 was about his roommate. Only Theorem 9 (Pump Incompleteness) remains genuinely unrebutted, and nobody cares.
🔒 THREAD LOCKED